Brandon Scott Gorrell questions: is it good or bad to travel with a girlfriend? Is it good or bad to make a girlfriend while traveling?
Photo:MelvinSchlubman
THIS FROM a relatively large, personable Israeli with a pony-tail and a face of graying stubble who was “26” sitting in front of a campfire in Pai, Thailand:
“Some women, they want me to love them. They want me to love them all day and they want me to tell them ‘I love you.’ They want me to take them to the cinema and they want to call me on my telephone and then they want me to fuck them. I love a bitch in bed. But after I am in the bed I do not love the bitch. The bitch calls me and tells me that she loves me. I tell her I love her because I know it is what she wants to hear and then she is quiet. But I do not love her. I love her in bed. It is because I am a man. You and me, we are men. Yes, We are men.”
We were alone drinking whiskeys, sometimes looking at the stars. It was the king’s birthday, apparently, and the Thais were setting off mini hot-air balloons and we could see 20 or 30 of them floating very high, still moving upward, and from that distance they seemed like floating candles, or UFOs, or something frightening.
I had the conversation a lot, usually after a ‘fellow traveler’ and I saw a man holding a girl’s hand, the two quietly walking through whatever tourist thing we were all ‘gawking’ at, or feeding money into.
“You and I both know that it wouldn’t be the same,” a Canadian said to me as we walked through Bayon, one of the temples of Angkor. “You and I both know that there would be little fights, and you’d always have to look out for her. You could never go out and drink. . . It’d be harder to meet people. You could only go out with other couples. You wouldn’t feel free. You’d feel like you always had to answer to someone, and you could never do anything spontaneous, because you’d have to check first. . . it just wouldn’t work.”
‘Across the board,’ the consensus was basically the same: it was not good to travel with a girlfriend. It was good to ‘do it’ with a girl, and travel with her for awhile, but to end it, preferably within 2-4 weeks. It was good to let the girl know of your expectations, and for everything to be clear, but if she ‘moved in’ on you, then you had to continue to make things clear. It was good to have these things with girls.
And it was bad to lead a girl on. Even to make a semi-permanent girlfriend while abroad. It was bad for the men and the women. It restricted freedom and caused unhappiness.
“I accidentally slept with the English girl last night,” was the one of the first things another Israeli said to me after we met. I had offhandedly mentioned that I was hungry to someone in the lobby of my guesthouse and he had volunteered that we get breakfast together. I had seen him and the English girl around but we hadn’t spoken, and I hadn’t assumed anything about their relationship. I expressed surprise at his statement and laughed.
“Yeah, it just sort of happened,” he said. “I wasn’t planning on it or anything. I didn’t even think about something like that happening until a minute before it actually happened.”
I said, “Damn.” He said, “Now I don’t know what the status is. . . I’ve been trying to stay out of things like this because I don’t want to have to take care of someone. I need to make sure that she doesn’t expect something. . .”
So it seemed that there existed a fear among men. An assumption that a relationship with a woman would lead to rules, restrictions, boundaries to which men did not want to be bound. An assumption that all women travelers a man ‘hooked up’ with wanted was to passively instigate a monotonous, long-term, emotional relationship.
The men had a fear of the women, and it was like playing with fire, and some had more control over the fire than others. If a man started any romantic thing with a woman while traveling then he had seen the first spark, and it was his mission onward to keep the flames at bay.
I’m not sure about any of this. I have not traveled with any girlfriend. I can understand what these men have said and I can empathize with their positions. I can understand how a romantic partner might be restrictive. From a distance, even I have observed the negative consequences of a man and a woman traveling with each other, and each other alone.
But I can also see the benefits of traveling with a companion that you’re involved with romantically, for the long-term. I can see the benefits of not needing to go out and ‘get smashed’ with some bros you just met. I can see how someone might not ‘be into’ Khao San Road (a place where it’d be strange to be a couple), and how it might be a relief to not rely on places like that. I understand why people are together. But I don’t know.
It seems complicated.
Community Connection
Brave New Traveler has published a piece on how to tell your partner you want to travel alone.
And for a different perspective, Pete Olson writes about traveling as a mixed couple in Asia.
About the Author
More By This Author
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- Notes on Meeting People in Bangkok (8 comments)
- Notes and Analysis of the 'Typical Traveler Conversation' (12 comments)
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34 Comments... join the discussion!
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Funny you should talk about it as a male issue, though I assume this to be because you are male, but coming from a female stand point…is sounds very familiar. I enjoy ‘hooking’ up with men while traveling. I love spending a day traveling with a male who takes me on a date, and I also ‘worry’ what will be expected of me when the day or date is over. Especially if we’ve had sex. I don’t enjoy having to answer to anybody or to have expectations of having that man ‘follow’ me or to be expected to ‘follow’ him to the next destination. I often have anxiety when these expectations are thrown into the mix and I begin to feel obligated to ‘look after’ a new relationship. One of the very worst traveling experiences for me was traveling with a longtime boyfriend, who turned out to be a horrible travel partner. What was funny to me is that it turned out to be the very best vacation he had ever had.
Everybody is different and some do better in relationships than others, codependency and all that, while some do well in relationships because they’ve found a good fit for them in a partner. Traveling can bring out the best and the worst in someone and it takes time to learn to travel well. Some learn faster than others, as some are ‘naturals’, while others can’t even leave their own front door. So traveling would be a living nightmare for them.
I believe, if you are traveling alone, and you ‘hook-up’ with someone there should be an understanding of no promises and no obligations. No need to turn ugly or uncomfortable. Mutual respect. But be aware, that it’s not just a concern for male counterparts, we women also enjoy being footloose and fancy free.↵ -
It’s interesting that these guys kept mentioning having to “take care” of a girl. Presumably these girls who are already traveling solo would be perfectly capable of taking care of themselves?
I know these aren’t the opinions of the author, but I do find them pretty gross and stereotypical. I am a big fan of solo travel to begin with but this certainly makes me less inclined to want to hook up with any men on the road lest i be subject to their small minded ideas.
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I can appreciate that these are “notes” delivered more or less objectively, and that the author “doesn’t know” what conclusion, if any, should be drawn. But for me all this piece does is propagate gender stereotypes (something that doesn’t need any extra help)–especially the title. I’m a man and have never experienced this “fear.” And as the two commenters above pointed out, there are women who do.
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No insight here – just lots of gender stereotypes macho braggadaccio. So if you’d rather not experience the wonder and joy of travel with someone you love, travel alone. There’s always the random, meaningless hook up to fill the void.
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I can see that in a way, the author of this piece is speaking from a genuine standpoint. I really appreciate that not because it’s p.c., but because it’s interesting. It seems like most writers are afraid to speak from the heart about how they feel.
On the other hand it’s easy to see how some women might feel objectified. If so I’m sorry for them. I guess it’s not always easy to be honest when sharing our ideas of the world. But I think it’s an honest article and I respect that.
Having traveled by myself to some exotic locations as a single guy, I can see that some of the your ideas feel valid. It’s always nice to be able to walk away. Sometimes in my travels when I hooked up with women I did feel the pull to hang out for long periods afterwords. Luckily for me, I didn’t. I think if you feel like hanging out with someone you should but to keep the adventure going, sometimes you have to break free.
I’ve also had the experience of traveling with my current long term girlfriend. It seems hard to get used to and certainly there were things we did differently. The thing is I am glad we have the memories together now. We had some battles and I was torn at times but it was special and fun. Hopefully the author has the opportunity to experience both someday. Honestly.
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Geez, pretty sure I don’t need someone to take care of me. And pretty sure I’d be the one wanting to go out with some buddies for drinks. I wonder why being involved with someone makes life less “fun”?
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The more times I re-read the first paragraph and the conversation by “Israeli”, the angrier I got. How dare he refer to women as “bitches”. I hope no woman ever chooses to hook up with this creep.
And why is it assumed that women travelling solo want to “hook up” with strangers anyhow? Or that they need to be “taken care of”. Disgusting mind set.And…I’m assuming that if you have a girlfriend, and you’ve actually spent money to book a trip together, you are serious enough about each other to enjoy each other’s company. Why then this need to get drunk with the bros or ‘meet other people’? (By that I guess HE means “other girls”. Again, what a creep to be wanting to meet other women while travelling with a girlfriend)
Also, I didn’t know it was impossible to meet other people, as a couple. I’ve travelled, as a couple, lots of times and met lots of interesting other people – both singles and couples.
Anyhow, just my 2 cents worth.↵ -
My thoughts are very similar to those above. Women traveling alone tend not to be precious gems who need constant care.
Nor are men the only ones who want no strings attached travel companions.
And I also have to ask, who the hell is this guy? He sounds more crazy and out-of-touch than Israeli.
Has this piece consciously been written with an untrustworthy narrator? It’s not entirely clear to me what I should be taking away from the narrative.
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Seems bleak.
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nice
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For a moment, I thought I’d clicked through to Maxim Mag’s web site
Honestly, what are we suppose to get out this piece? It’s very difficult to come away with anything constructive.
Though I’m not familiar with Matador’s editorial policy, but this article begs the question of what Matador is trying to promote.
I guess stories about nasty male travelers make for lots of comments and traffic.
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Francoise,
thanks for commenting.
4 quick clarifications re: ‘editorial policy’ / traffic / ‘what Matador is trying to promote’:
a. i wasn’t thinking about traffic or generating comments when i accepted this piece. when i first reviewed it, my initial reaction went something like: ‘damn. the israeli. i’ve met a lot of people like that before. they’re ‘all over the place’ when you’re traveling. but few people actually write about them. ‘
b. to me the theme here is that the certain behaviors are born out of fear and weakness.
c. noting that is positive, in my opinion. it leads discussion, to consideration. to ‘knowing where you stand.’
d. i feel like this theme is conveyed however via a writing style that most people aren’t used to. instead of the author labeling / judging / filtering / categorizing, (for example, categorizing the israeli as ‘a misogynist’, he’s more just observing / listening / declaring. in other words, the author isn’t accepting or denying characters’ actions or choices or positions but simply presenting them, recognizing them, in a transparent way.
e. ppl might then conclude: “he’s just bringing something up without ‘taking a position.’ his ‘position’ was ‘it’s complicated.’ that’s a ‘cop-out’.”
f. which is fine if that’s how you read it. but it’s not how i read it.
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I get what the author is going for, and in many ways the writing reminds me of Charles Bukowski, who is worse than the Israeli and a writer I love to read (even when he sinks into bouts of what I can only describe as drink sodden barely comprehensible prose that was probably written on the back of a filthy napkin from a bar room floor).
That said, I’m not sure this piece entirely accomplishes what it sets out to do. While it brings up some interesting ideas, It’s very difficult to have a first person onlooker agreeing with a distasteful character and still be able to relate to them both in spite of feelings of disgust. That the readers here, including myself, have had such a strong reaction and many of us seem to miss part of the point, I think, leads more to the writing than the reader.
That said, kudos for the discussion. People talk about travel narrative, but almost no one talks about the process of creating these narratives, how they can be improved and the effect they have on the reader.
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it does seem complicated. but sometimes women don’t expect anything further either.
i’m glad you left this open-ended. people are, after all, nothing but people.
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One of my new favorite BNT contributors because the topics are raised in a way that reflects some of what actually goes on in the less-than rosy real world. Having worked in The Backpacking Industry, I observed the ways otherwise decent people would move around a certain kind of girl.
There is a certain kind of person, they come male and female but I’ve seen them more openly as females, who can’t “Score” at home. They go on holidays. They calm down, socialize more, and maybe a few opportunities present themselves. They feel pretty darn sexy, and eventually they end up sleeping with someone way out of their league. And then they become an uber stalker. They change their itinerary They interfere if the love interest is talking to a new potential partner. They attempt to shame the love interest into spending more time with them, talking about the love interest around the backpacking community. A subset of these people are in relationships at home but are unsatisfied and view this “new” person as an escape.
The fact is, women seem better at detecting uber stalkers before sleeping with them. I’ve shut down a couple, politely, and moved on, when my guy friends woke up with her… in his room… in the middle of the night… demanding an encore.
There’s another thing that happens that isn’t in this article: guilt. Let’s say you meet someone, likely while drinking, and things get out of hand. The chemistry is amazing and the night is fun and romantic and pretty soon you’re knocking boots. Even though you’re on holiday and even though it was “understood” that it was casual, the next day you feel like you should invite him/her along, because it was just a little more than a “whose bed is this?” morning. S/he told you the name of their cat and you watched the stars together. That was real and you don’t want to seem like you used them or faked interest to get them to put out. During whatever activity you end up on the next day, you realize you’ve made a Serious Mistake. This person is cool but there is no way you want to hook up with them again. Now you’ve set a precedent of not only hooking up but hanging out. How are you going to tactfully find out if they feel the same way and get rid of them without wondering if you are the terrible guy who kicks this article off?
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I am a male and through my travels I’ve found meeting women who share my passion for travel as some of the most rewarding experiences (with or without sex). I don’t think traveling has much to do with this at all. I think men in general, myself included, have a fear of being tied down, not simply while traveling. My problem with this article is that rather than embracing one’s own fears and concerns, he is projecting the blame for these unsure relationships on women wanting something more. As with all relationships, being honest and communicative is always the best policy even if its uncomfortable. I understand and completely agree with some of the concerns the author has, I just accept that these are MY concerns.
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Girls don’t like reading honest opinions. I’d say this article is accurate.
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Hmm, lest we forget that there are woman who would actually want to go out on their own, or with other women (or men) while traveling with a partner. I, personally, can’t go more than 3 days with the same person, and need the energy of a different person, or to be alone.
I won’t bother saying this piece stereotyped and generalized the hell out of women, since most commenters did before, but I do give the author the benefit of the doubt that he is sincere in questioning these stories from other men.
We draw to us the type of people we believe are out there in the world, and in a sometimes unconscious way, what we are looking for. Apparently, these men are looking for women with some serious self-esteem issues, and maybe they are looking for them because they are in fact, afraid of strong, self-sufficient women.
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This is crap! I don’t think I’d need my boyfriend to be taking care of me when we travel. I can’t believe men with such narrow mindsets still exist !
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The title of this post is misleading. I sat down to read it because I am contemplating a big trip with my boyfriend, and was curious to hear of the challenges of an undertaking like this. But the article isn’t about the challenges of traveling with a significant other at all… it’s about hooking up on the road. Which is fine and all, to each his own… just not what is advertised by the title at all.
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Part II. You should ask men who are traveling with girlfriends how much fear and restriction they are actually experiencing.
They probably wont know what you are talking about due to there being more well-adjusted and interesting travelers out there than this Israeli and Canadian.
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I have traveled alone extensively and find that one encounters unwanted attachment whether or not one has had a sexual encounter with the person or not. Some people simply don’t like to travel alone, and in the course of months or years of travel, both men and women can fluctuate between the need for solitude and companionship- possibly romantic companionship. So its a great joy when you can part from a newfound friend (or lover), with ease and grace, or conversely to spend a short or long period of time (openly, with clear intentions), with a person. Who knows what could flourish? Though the mind of one who thinks that women inherently attach to men unquestioningly is that of an imbecile.
The author is completely one-sided in his exploration of the topic. What about traveling with a boyfriend? I would never consider doing such a thing (except in the short-term), without first seriously questioning our relationship. Living with a lover is difficult enough, for although there are beautiful moments, the constant contact is enough to make one question their sanity.
I can’t resist saying it-though I’m familiar with the type- but the two subjects of the article make my blood boil. However, I pity the shallow lives they currently lead. Have you never met a woman who thrives on adrenaline, spontenaity, and sometimes outright insanity? We too thrive on the solitary and pioneering search for the self without the need for constant chatting and care.
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If your relationship consists of mini fights and “taking care” of your partner like a child, then you will probably continue to do this while traveling, perhaps more so due to the added stress. If you have a truly honest, functioning relationship, where your partner serves as more than a convenient fuck and in fact inspires, motivates, helps you etc then you may have better luck. I’ve had a variety of experiences with many different kinds of traveling partners. Sometimes even you and your best friend can end up in some emotional shit storm. I guess these are things that come along with having close personal relationships with anyone. You trade getting close to someone and sharing in all the positive of the relationship by also having to put up with some of their shit. Sure, you can keep switching partners and even friends and make it easier, it just depends on the sort of connections you seek in life and if you really enjoy having the, “So what are you doing in Indonesia?” conversation constantly.
Also, way to keep it heteronormative.
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Wow, women as the other much.
I think you’ll find that just as many women don’t want to be “tied down in relationships” as men. And you’ll find just as many boyfriends clinging to their girlfriend/boyfriends as girlfriends.
It’s amazing what a little “I’m just looking to get laid” honesty will actually get you.
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traveling with a significant other can be easy.
you just have to genuinely like their company.
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thanks
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1: Is the idea of a man and a woman becoming platonic friends without it having to lead to sex so ridiculous? Adding on to that, it is very easy to meet people while travelling as one-half of a couple. Maybe “The Canadian” has a hard time with it because from his quotes he seems to equate meeting people with having sex with them.
2: To me, anyway, the point of travelling is to find out who you are away from your family and out of your comfort zone… i.e., the opposite of being taken care of. I am a woman, and I have not traveled extensively by myself, but the last thing I would want to do is intentionally tie myself down to one person while on a mission to essentially figure out who I am.
3: It’s not just girls who demand a high level of commitment from their boyfriends. Clingy, jealous guys exist too. Also relationships with clingy men are more likely to end up becoming destructive and physically violent than relationships with clingy women. I’m just pointing that out for all you narrow-minded cave men out there.
Anyway, I liked how the author of this article maintained a neutral point of view, but I must agree that I feel sorry for any of the (ahem) “bitches” that made the mistake of sleeping with “The Israeli”.
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Geez… I don’t really know what everyone is fussing about.
Sure, there are some opinions in this piece that make me annoyed in a little “sigh, men are such dummies” kind of way. But the piece is honest and actually talks about fears men have, even if the fears are kinda dumb. Honesty in writing is good, even if you don’t like it.↵ -
y’all sure are gettin defensive
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BRos FoR liFe
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Interesting. I can believe that some men have this “fear,” although I don’t necessarily think it’s the norm. There’s definitely a transition you make between traveling solo and traveling as couple.
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Love this. It is hilarious, controversial, and most importantly- real.
A trip is made not just by what you encounter but by who you encounter it with. To have the chance to sit on a beach in Thailand sipping whiskey is amazing; to listen to a crazy/scary Israeli sprout off his personal take on male-female relationships in broken English while sitting there is unique and unforgettable. It is what really sparked this article isn’t it?
Funny how even though guys and gals want the same thing from travels, but when put together as guy&gal they take on different roles that make them feel restricted. Wish I was better at compromising because I think there is potential to get more out of my traveling experiences if I wanted a man around. As for now though, I’m just dandy with the free drinks I get because I don’t.
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I traveled with my girfriend (she’s now my wife) and at a campground in Germany we saw a man out for a stroll in his whitey-tighties one morning.
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